MyDD :: Hillary's Quest for President: Blazing the Trail

Hillary's Quest for President: Blazing the Trail

by duende, Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:06:48 AM EST

No false unity diary below, nor is this any attempt from an Obama supporter to curry favor with Hillary supporters or 'get them on side'. This is just a brief thought piece. I'll still expect flames.

Back in January my fifteen year old daughter was a Hillary supporter. She lives in the UK, so wasn't quite so up on the issues as she would have been in the US, but I guess her primary reason for supporting HRC was that:

She wanted to see a female president

I've never tried to sway her opinions on anything. In fact I love the independence of thought from both my kids. But within a couple of months, largely due to the 'framing strategy' of the Hillary campaign, my daughter shifted allegiance and became an Obama supporter.

The problem with these primaries is that it is has turned the complexity of democratic politics into EITHER/OR, a binary choice: you're either more against racism or sexism, for one candidate and AGAINST the other.

Along with a whole lot of supporters on both sides, I'm as guilty of this as anyone. A year ago I didn't think Obama stood a chance and was rooting for Hillary to be the first woman president. In the last four months, as Obama was attacked on so many fronts (muslim machurian elitist separatist chicago crook etc.) I hardened up, and forgot how historic Hillary's candidacy was.

Whatever happens from now on I would say two things.

1. Hillary has blazed a trail and shown a woman IS electable, and this will become the norm from now on. Expect a female nominee within ten years, a female president within twenty

2. Hillary Clinton has taken over the Clinton brand , and we'll never again think of her as a first lady ride along ever again. She has shown herself to be an indefatigable and formidable fighter in her own right, and she is no longer in Bill's shadow.

I would apply to last point to many of her supporters. And the legacy is: she has broken the glass ceiling for many women in US politics. She couldn't climb beyond that point for various reasons, more to do with campaign, the dynastic problem and the 90s legacy. But break it she did.

Update [2008-5-18 11:44:7 by duende]: On the rec list. Well, thanks to supporters from both sides for this. And before any accusations fly: no I haven't been paid, conscripted or asked to 'play nice'. This is genuinely what I think, and I checked the diary with my daughter before posting it. I'll pass on the recs to her. She needs them: mid way through Latin Exams.

Update [2008-5-18 16:16:46 by duende]: Problem with Brits, we don't know s**t, and we only get the louder headlines across the Atlantic. Pinche Tejano points out that there was another trail blazer, Shirley Chisholm. For more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Chisholm

http://www.africanamericans.com/ShirleyChisholm.htm

Poll

Votes: 81
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Primaries, Feminism (all tags)

Permalink :: 90 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 16)

As you can see I cannot mojo your comments, but I will give out phantom mojo when I can.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:14:12 AM EST

Rec'd on your behalf. (none / 0)

n/t

John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.

by Shem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 02:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (none / 0)

I humbly disagee with point 1.

Hillary has blazed a trail, yes. Women are more ahead, yes.

But this race has been very unfortunate. It made a lot of issues to come to the fore. Hillary has convinced me that she is a terrific leader. I don't see any other woman with her qualifications in the horizon.

I am afraid MSM will get behind a mediocere female candidate the next time, try to hype her, and then tell us, "see, women can't govern." They would either let that woman self-implode, or give her the Hillary treatment after she has been elected.

I am very cynical and pessimistic.

Hillary is NOT a woman candidate. She is THE MOST QUALIFIED candidate, period. She is an amazingly resilient, smart, qualified candidate. She is one of the best candidates of either party in at least 30 years. And the media is dooming her. She has a billion dollar megaphone working against her day in and out. As someone appropriately put in another diary today, it's like officials trying to push Kathrine Switzer out of the marathan. A very apt analogy.

I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas

by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 3)

Nice thread if i could red I would,

david

by giusd on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:20:19 AM EST

Got it for you. (2.00 / 2)

Rec'd on giusd's behalf.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Got it for you. (none / 0)

by giusd on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 1)

I can't let a Clinton compliment go unchallenged so let me say I don't think Hillary is the trailblazer everyone claims she is. Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House, there are 16 female Senators, there are 8 female Governors, there have been numerous female cabinet members, there was a female VP nominee.

Does anyone think a woman can't be elected President of the United States in 2008? I sure don't. If Condoleeza Rice ran for the R nomination for Prez, my guess is she would have done as well or better than Clinton did.

I just don't think Clinton is any kind of trailblazer. She is walking the path that many many women before her created.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:20:54 AM EST

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 5)

I love your first line 'can't let a Hillary comment go unchallenged'

But my point is that NONE of these other women have put themselves quite in the firing line like Hillary has. It has to be credited as an achievement.

I lived for 11 years under Thatcher's prime ministership here. I detested virtually everthing she stood for, politically. But I do recognise she was a trail blazer and an amazing woman.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:27:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 1)

Hillary is a very good politician. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. She certianly did put herself in the firing line. I give her credit for that.

The problem I have with giving her the trailblazer moniker is that I don't think she deserves it. By the same token I don't think Obama deserves the trailblazer moniker either. If this were 1972 neither of them would have had a showball's chance in Hell of winning the WH. A lot of people blazed a trail for Hillary and Obama in order to make it a possibility that a woman or an AA man could win the WH in 2008.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 1)

I enjoyed your diary.

Still I beg to disagree on Thatcher. To me she was horrible as a human being. For one thing, she ruthlessly ordered the Belgrano to be sunk, which cost, if I remember rightly, nearly 2000 human lives.

Can one be horrible as a human being and amazing as a woman? (Unless on is an amazingly horrible woman...)

What does 'amazing woman' mean, actually?

by french imp on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (none / 0)

All I have on this is the Wikipedia article but it looks like it was 323 people. I know that doesn't change your point.

by RISD Democrat on Sun May 18, 2008 at 02:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (none / 0)

You're right! I didn't remember rightly. There's no reason not to trust the Wikipedia article. Apparently there were about 1100 people ("Argies") on board when it sank, but more than 700 were rescued by Argentinian and Chilean ships.

Still as you say it doesn't change my point, which was, crudely speaking, that a female bastard is not worth more than a male bastard... (irrespective of whether you agree with me or not that sinking the Belgrano was a bastardly deed; and by the way we Frenchmen have not much reason to be proud that a French missile sank the Sheffield).

by french imp on Sun May 18, 2008 at 03:18:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (none / 0)

Point taken.

The Belgrano thing was horrible, but surely that was her acting as a politician. I don't think you can say she was a horrible human being as a result. The context is different, but was Truman a 'horrible human being' for ordering Nagasaki and Hiroshima? I don't think politics quite works this way, and things like 'perceived national interest' the 'safety of our troops' also weighs heavily. The personal isn't always political, and vice versa.

I think it would be hard to say that Thatcher set no example, blazed no trail - though she was very unfriendly to female competitors and promoted many fewer of them in her cabinet than her predecessors, or successors.

But there were things to be admired about her. The only one I can think of, apart from her symbolic role, is that she got Bosnia dead right, and proposed lifting the arms embargo and striking serb heavy weapons from 1992. Hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 2)

Oh, yay. She is going to be the first. In 2013 more likely than 2009, maybe, but the first.

She's definitely taken more $%#@ than any other female politician in American public life- for being a woman. She's burned out a lot of the chauvinist fuel. She doesn't owe anyone, let alone obloquists like you, a damn.

by killjoy on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:31:56 AM EST
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Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 6)

Your handle remains as telling as ever. Your misuse of obloquy, and your shrill desire to continue picking a fight, proves that some supporters ill serve their candidate. This arrogant and often obnoxious sense of entitlement has done damage to her campaign. YOU probably OWE Hillary an apology

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:45:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn it , duende (none / 0)

I'm supposed to be the walking dictionary around here, then you send me scurrying with "obloquy." Doggone edumacated Brits!

by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:28:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn it , duende (none / 0)

To be fair, that damned Yank Killjoy used 'obloquist' first, and that's even rarer.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn it , duende (none / 0)

Bloody hell!

by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in that case we might not get to 2013 (none / 0)

4 years of McCain's anger-challenged finger on the button might be tempting fate a bit too much.

McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.

by obsessed on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (none / 0)

The number of women in politics has been steadily rising for some time. Obviously there are many other women who achieved great things. But the presidency really represents a different level of power and scrutiny, and I do think Hillary is probably the only woman in the country who could have gotten this far. Put it this way: Many other woman have contributed to blazing the overall trail and they should not be ignored, but Hillary just extended that trail in a way that shouldn't be minimized.

There is no way that Condoleeza Rice would have even sniffed the Republican nomination this cycle. She's a terrible candidate for many, many reasons.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 5)

I especially agree with your point on taking over the Clinton brand. Before Iowa, I was one of those who believed she was running as Mrs. Clinton.
She ran as a strong, dynamic voice for just under half of our Party. In the future, it will be Hillary, not Bill most of us will think of when we hear the name Clinton.

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:22:31 AM EST

Re: Hillarys Quest for President: Blazing the Trai (2.00 / 3)

Phantom mojo from me

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:27:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Reccing (none / 0)

Duende, I really hope your powers are restored soon.

by mady on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:51:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 10)

I went through a similar process as you. I was very excited about Hillary throughout the Fall and early Winter. I presumed she would be the nominee and was ecstatic about it.

Obama started to turn my head when he brought out the youngsters in Iowa and won the damn thing. He clinched it when the Clintons started "framing" - as you charitably call it - around South Carolina time.

Hillary has incensed me at times since then, but she has done way too much for the party and for the country for me to hold grudges. I hope that she will continue to use her considerable talents at the very highest levels of government, whatever it may be. And I hope for the sake of my daughter who is coming in six weeks, and for all Americans, that we see a woman president very soon.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:29:56 AM EST

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 4)

Well, let's see how long that charm of Obama and 'the youngsters' lasts. Their solutions for things don't get to the bottom of problems, and their tolerance for suffering and ability to deal with failure is not great. Obama has also gotten himself in league and in debt with the more conservative half of the Party establishment.

by killjoy on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:39:26 AM EST
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Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 4)

The charm has lasted 15 months. I think it will survive another 6. I have never been more confident that he will beat McCain. The GE poll numbers that have come out in the past week look great (for both our candidates now that they're not ripping out each other's throats). I hope someone will poll FL, PA, and OH soon, but I am feeling rather good about McCain going down.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:45:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

His charm has diminished outside of the party (2.00 / 1)

And has diminished even inside the party. The GE poll numbers you refer to don't say that much. I've seen Democratic losers before with better poll numbers 6 months out.

by lombard on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:29:17 AM EST
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Re: His charm has diminished outside of the party (2.00 / 2)

Are you serious? Really? Are you? Please allow me to refer you to the flood of superdelegates ever since Super Tuesday, a flood that has continued unabated and will continue unabated.

Recent GE polls are the WHOLE reason we MUST elect Hillary, but when they look good for Obama they mean NOTHING?

You folks are tiresome and I won't miss these types of exchanges when this is finally over. At the same time, I wish the very best to the Clintons, who are icons of my (and your?) party.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:40:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The superdelegates are making a choice (2.00 / 0)

Between the devil and the deep blue sea. I don't envy them.

by lombard on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:44:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The superdelegates are making a choice (2.00 / 3)

I want answers damn it! Why are GE polls all-important when they favor Clinton and meaningless when they look good for Obama? Whey are the only GE polls that matter the ones that come in the middle of the Rev. Wright controversy instead of the ones now, or in a few weeks when he is the official nominee, or back in February when Obama was handing McCain his ass in the GE polls?

The superdelegates are choosing between two good candidates whose GE numbers are roughly the same even after Obama sustained an all-out assault on his electibility from both the Clinton camp and the Republicans, and one of who is the clear leader after fifty-something DNC-sanctioned contests.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't owe you any answers, but (2.00 / 3)

all I said was that polls 6 months out are not particularly good indicators of the final result. I wasn't going around touting Clinton's poll numbers during the Wright publicity, either.

Not that it matters anymore, but I always have felt that Clinton was more electible than Obama not because of polls (public opinion can be fickle) but because of:

1) More relative experience and seasoning (at least to the perceptions of voters);

2) More relative strength in larger battleground states (partially because of the Clinton brand of moderate pragmatism and competence);

3) Better support demographics (women, Latinos, moderate to moderately conservative lower middle and middle class whites) for the general election than Obama's (African Americans, latte liberals, youth). Clinton's have expansion potential outside of the Democratic party. The first two of Obama's have little. The last one does but is often unreliable.

by lombard on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (1.00 / 1)

You owe me, everyone on this site, and everyone in the Democratic party answers as to why you are still trying to torpedo the all-but-certain Democratic nominee. It's time for unity, my friend. Hillary's on board. Most of her surrogates and financiers are on board. Now it's your turn.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:11:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If we can't put up Howdy Doody (D) (none / 0)

and beat old man McCain in this political climate, we'd better pack it in and move to Canada.

by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

What was trollable about that remark? Contentious maybe, but trollable?

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

I called this user out for TR abuse on another thread, and he/she immediately went to this thread and started TRing me here. Don't worry about it... he/she's been doing it for a long time.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a metaphor... (none / 0)

A lot of the metaphysical TR abuse that has gone on in the blogosphere in general is probably a hangover 'from other threads'

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a metaphor... (none / 0)

No doubt about it... Everybody's gotta have a hobby...

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (1.00 / 0)

The poster doesn't owe me an apology, so your everyone on this site statement is obviously inaccurate. Your post is beyond ridiculous. Could you provide a list of "most of her surrogates and financiers" and what they are "on board" for. Really, you could admit that this is one of the most ridiculous posts that you have ever made. Hold your breath for that apology to you personally. Someone will get back to you shortly, my friend.

by Jeter on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

TR'd for ratings abuse. My comment was impatient, contentious, and not that well thought out but I am not a troll and will never be one. I have voted for every Democrat in every race I have ever voted in. That will not change in November. I advocate for Democrats in every way that time will allow. I have NEVER hoped for any Democrat to lose in a general election. I am most certainly NOT a troll, nor was my comment in any way trollish.

The unity train is on its way and you are missing it. See the Rendell/Casey letter and the recent unity meeting between Clinton/Obama financial backers. See also the complete reversal of tone from the Clinton camp. No amount of troll rating abuse is going to change it.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (1.00 / 0)

"impatient, contentious, and not that well thought out"

Thank you for recognizing that. Since there is no rating for jusr plain old bad posts, I gave you a 1. I should also say that I know far more about what is actually going on behind the scenes. I won't descrobe details since I don't think you are quite ready to understand how politics works, or etiquette amongst those in power. If you read either of Senator Obama's books you will clearly see that he is a very intelligent, sophisticated person who does understand the trappings of power. No one in the campaign is advocating verbal thuggery to force anyone to get on the Unity train. Decisions were made weeks ago, fool. No one has sent the alert out for first time cattle prodders,fool.

by Jeter on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

TR'd for third-grade name-calling and personal attacks. The rating for "plain old bad posts" is "none." Anything else is ratings abuse.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

I also love your "I know what's going on behind the scenes, but I won't tell you because you can't handle it" bit. Who was that Georgia Congressman who said going into the 2006 elections Bush had a "secret plan to end the Iraq War," but he wouldn't say what because then the terrorists would be expecting it. Thank you for reminding me of that entertaining moment in history.

Also, I don't need Obama to tell me what to do. I "cattle prodded" this person only because the subject line of the post irritated me, I was pissed, and I wrote it very rashly. I think I've already expressed in so many words that I wish I hadn't. Doesn't make me a "troll" or a "fool." Just a fallable human being.

And by the way, my new definition of a "fool" is anyone who in any way encourages or enables the election of a Republican President in 2008 after the past eight years.

I like baked beans.

by SpideyDem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:11:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't owe you any answers, but (none / 0)

Those are all very strong arguments for Clinton. Unfortunately, over the last six months or so, Obama's arguments seem to have been more compelling with both the voters and the party interests represented by the super delegates. It's been a close thing.

What is The October Protocol?

by Koan on Sun May 18, 2008 at 03:34:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 4)

"Well, let's see how long that charm of Obama and 'the youngsters' lasts. Their solutions for things don't get to the bottom of problems, and their tolerance for suffering and ability to deal with failure is not great".

Just because you do not like Obama is not the best of reasons to go trashing the decision of an individual youngster or youngsters as a whole.

At best your characterization of youngsters is a reflection of your character and the youngsters you know, it is not an accurate general rule.

by My Ob on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (none / 0)

It seems that young people are the only demographic left that are "fair game" for open ridicule and disparagement.

by catalysis on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (1.00 / 1)

typical white persons and bitter rural voters seem to be quite open game from Obama's point of view.

by swissffun on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:11:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (1.00 / 1)

Hardworking blacks appear to be open to be mocked by Hillary.

Hey, I'm just using your standards, and she said it, not me.

by southernman on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 1)

What a great liar you are! Is this what your parents taught you?

Show me where Hillary said this ridiculous thing?

by Sandeep on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:05:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (none / 0)

I think you reading something into what I said that isn't there. Obama meets a present need for a politician who operates in the political center and helps some ascendent groups who have been locked out and demand their share and participation- young, black, the pretty well educated. Which is good.

One fundamental problem is that he operates on an attractive but simplistic and partially revisionist theory of history and our present place and problems in it. Secondly, he's allied himself with the conservative/moderate and Left establishment in the Party.

His young supporters don't see these two things or quite understand their consequences, which I don't blame them for. All I can do is point to those things and tell people that there's going to be a lot of profound disappointment and disillusionment with an Obama Presidency after a year or two.

by killjoy on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (none / 0)

I can't think of a president where disillusionment and disappointment DIDN'T creep in (except perhaps FDR and JFK?) but the point is well made.

What I would add, however, by way of warning is that you're seeing this all slightly through the alliances, constituencies and political demographics of the 90s. Two things have changed - the activism of the young and the african american vote. I think some like Axelrod and Plouffe understand that there is both an election to be won, and a new coalition to be formed, because of changing demographics. They may be wrong, but from everything I've seen - and Poblano is a master of describing this - it's not like they haven't thought about it.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (none / 0)

Well, it's been 10 years since 'the Nineties'. We've only turned over what, 15% of the electorate? We've lost the last FDR Democrats, mostly- who were basically moderate Republicans.

Pollings show breakdowns that the political blocs in practice- on the left side of the spectrum Moderate Democrat (6%), Left (8%), Liberal (24%)- still exist.

I agree there's ferment. I agree that the Left bloc resurrected as force in 2003, the Moderates in 2004 or 2006, after their flagrant selfdestruction in the Eighties and Nineties. And I agree that in all the activity and initiative, they've blurred terms somewhat ("progressive") and people are shuffling around inside the wings of the Party. The sorting out is still happening, and it won't settle until some bloc is elected to office, dominant and put to the test of actual governing.

However, what you and those folks claim, in effect, is that these resurrections means that the Liberal bloc proper is transcended in the Democratic Party.

As one of that bloc that is supposedly transcended, I'm not in a hurry to like the claim. It's a standard, fact of life, power grab of Left and Moderate sorts (which young people and black people are, generally speaking) more than a description of reality. Made easy by that Liberals don't lust for, clutch, and cling to power for its own sake, unlike those other blocs. We're always the bloc of last resort, elected to clean up messes.

There are places that Liberals go, politically, that those other two blocs don't. Difficult social rights legislation, letting Republicans go without giving them a retaliatory or gratuitous personal beating (just taking their offices and killing their agenda), comprehensive cleanup of messes, selfsacrifice for particular just causes. Ability to give up power. And admitting that Republicans represent, when elected, and how ever badly and objectionably, The People's desire for some particular actions or state of affairs. (Always a lot less and more humane desires than Republicans claim as mandate, but nonetheless.)

The Left and Moderates are practically all with Obama. The Liberals have split between Clinton and Obama- I thought they might yet unite around Clinton, but just enough are sticking with Obama. There are all kinds of fairly superficial reasons given for them sticking with Obama- why should I vote for a woman just because I'm a woman, Obama is "once in a generation", Clinton offends me by saying X or not saying Y.

But the basic reason seems to be a feeling that the country as a whole sees dispelling the Bush/Republican messes and elected officials responsible for them as priority. The objection to Clinton is the that country doesn't want an ideological atmosphere or continuing the fights and seeing the people- right or wrong- of the Bush era. It doesn't want to make certain kinds of hard commitments and decisions just yet, or strong reversals of course. It wants the obvious things dealt with in a practical way- taxes, health care, Guantanamo. In short, it is a centrist atmosphere. That of course needs gussying up as New rather than Obvious. And that's what Obama is positioned for. A lot of people interpret New to mean that their great ideas are going to get a hearing and serious consideration. I don't know whether the latter part is true in a centrist atmosphere- experience says no.

Clinton has organized a coalition that is going to be there when there's a feeling of need for more and harder changes. When the collective decision has been made do harder things than Obama and his coalition can or want to.

They're doing something interesting, in that Clinton demonstrates that liberals and small c conservatives proper feel related and in many ways agree in being essentialists. Obama demonstrates that moderates feel akin across Party lines in the muddle of compromise that that they consider political life.

by killjoy on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (none / 0)

Agreed. That is what I am worried about. I dont want voters to get disillusioned and angry at Democrats when reality sinks in. 2008 is not the end of it. We have 2010 coming up.

by Sandeep on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 2)

No, I will not get off your lawn!

Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.

by Massadonious on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:05:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 2)

I'm so chuffed you think I'm still young. Though the fact I have a teenage daughter might alert you to the reality that a lot of middle aged people support Obama

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:51:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, and that is distressing (1.20 / 5)

by lombard on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

To you it is, clearly (none / 0)

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: (2.00 / 1)

Big virtual mojo for summarising it so adroitly

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:52:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The focus on identity politics hasn't been helpful (2.00 / 2)

After Biden dropped, I felt that Hillary clearly was the best woman and the best man for the job of those still standing. I still feel that way. She deserves part of the blame for embracing the gender label when doing so was completely unnecessary. Framing this about identity encouraged far too many people to label this as a choice between woman vs. African American or older vs. younger. The focus always should have been on the merits of the individual.

by lombard on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:20:01 AM EST

Re: The focus ? (none / 0)

Do they use the phrase

"You're a day late and a dollar short"

in Great Britain?

by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Broken Glass ceiling = B.S. (2.00 / 2)

You must be going through the "stark reality stage." The realization that Obama won't make it without Clinton supporters. You could also chalk it up as the let's play nice stage.

by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:33:27 AM EST

Re: Broken Glass ceiling = B.S. (2.00 / 2)

No interest in playing nice to dead end supporters and republican trolls. Read the first two lines. But of course, that's not the point - any Obama supporting diary just gets a drive by preconception hit.

Good luck. That kind of non-reasoning did little to help your candidate.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:41:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You want to talk about "non-reasoning?" (2.00 / 2)

Assuming that a person is a republican when they don't climb aboard the Obama train.

by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:50:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Want to talk about projection? (2.00 / 1)

I didn't say YOU were a republican troll, and if you don't believe there have been any round here, then you haven't been paying attention.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:59:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to talk about projection? (none / 0)

I believe that there's all sorts of bloggers here for various reasons. There are Obama supporters, Clinton supporters, Democrats, Republicans, paid bloggers....probably even political analysts. So what?

by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to talk about projection? (none / 0)

There's no paid bloggers on MyDD, or, if there are, whoever's paying them is a moron. Go to Alexa.com and compare the traffic of this site, to, well... any. The reach is nil.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:47:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0)

If you read it again, I believe she was calling you a dead-ender. You are beyond convincing or even reasoning with. That may not always be true, but it has been true since I joined. Duende seems to be an intelligent poster, so I don't think she would waste her breath trying to convince you.

accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking

by Sychotic1 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

I am beyond convincing. :D Hooray for me and too bad for you. Move along now, try someone without a backbone.

by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is it, soyousay, (none / 0)

that an Obama supporter's compliments annoy you so grievously? The only personal characteristic more immature than being unable to accept criticism gracefully is the inability to take a compliment graciously. Believe it or not, there are some Obama supporters who have managed to remain respectful of Hillary all along. We should thank them for that, not offer them our scorn. It's unfortunate that so many of you have become so paranoid, perhaps due to a persecution complex, that you can't help but assume ulterior motives any time his supporters offer her praise of any kind.

Your attitude reveals startling close-mindedness.

Support forced pregnancy? Vote John McCain 2008!

by sricki on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:41:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither (none / 0)

will Clinton make it without Obama supporters. Just so we're clear.

by southernman on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:29:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny how we saw such different things and reacted (2.00 / 3)

differently.

within a couple of months, largely due to the 'framing strategy' of the Hillary campaign, my daughter shifted allegiance and became an Obama supporter....

Along with a whole lot of supporters on both sides, I'm as guilty of this as anyone. A year ago I didn't think Obama stood a chance and was rooting for Hillary to be the first woman president. In the last four months, as Obama was attacked on so many fronts (muslim machurian elitist separatist chicago crook etc.) I hardened up, and forgot how historic Hillary's candidacy was.

I was originally for Edwards, with Obama second and Clinton third. After what I saw as the media attacking not Obama on so many fronts, but Clinton, I began to resent it and support her more. However, the media's treatment of her was not the driving force. The driving force between me choosing her over him after Edwards dropped out was the fact that she was so much better in debates, at thinking on her feet, and in public speaking in general, and because her health care plan is more progressive.

Its funny that you and I probably watched the same media, and came out thinking the other candidate was being attacked too much.

The only attacks I saw on Obama until very, very recently were in emails. My television did not try to scare me away from him, my radio did not try to scare me away from him, and my newspaper did noy try to scare me away from him, like they did with her and her husband 24/7, until the nomination was all but decided.

The media has been bashing Hillary since at least January, 2008, just in time for their propaganda to ensure a Super Tuesday victory and subsequent string of victories for Obama.

My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?

by PJ Jefferson on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:43:39 AM EST

Re: Funny how we saw such different things and rea (2.00 / 2)

Yes, I did watch the same media and thought there were many attempts to hit Obama post Feb, some coming from fellow democrats.

We'll have to work this out some time. Both sides felt affronted and attacked by the MSM. Maybe the insults were balanced by the end. The one sure thing is: McCain got a free ride.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mojo for laying out a reasoned response. (2.00 / 1)

Here's how I see it with regard to who the media has been harder on.

Back in the 90's I was shopping for an SUV (I was a 'road warrior' on CA freeways and was tired of looking at bumpers for hours each day). But anyway, to me they all looked alike. I eventually bought a Ford Explorer. Amazingly, after I did I noticed all the other Ford Explorer's on the freeway.

I guess my point is, perception is different depending on point of view. As an Obama supporter I am sensitive to media piling on against him but less sensitive to media piling on against Hillary. As a Clinton supporter, I assume the reverse is true.

We've both seen diaries listing the horrible things the opposing candidate, campaign or supporters have said about our own candidate. Each side's list is just as long.

Can we suddenly be objective? I don't think it's possible. I can still pick out the Fords on the freeway and all other brands still look alike to me. As long as everyone understands that the cars on the freeway look different to a Ford owner than they do to a Toyota owner...the POV is cherry picking but it's not deliberate.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny how we saw such different things and rea (none / 0)

Obama said he's been holding back and saving it for McCain.

by hienmango on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: Blazing the Tra (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter, I'm sorry, but I just have to say that I agree completely with your sentiments, and laud you and your daughter. Seriously, it's completely un-ridiculous- how could you think something so rational and well thought out? Completely acceptable.

/invisible mojo and rec

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:43:13 PM EST

Thank you for your (none / 0)

civility and clarity.

invisible mojo and rec

Ida B. refused to stand in the back during women's suffrage parades

by Ida B on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Quite the reputation (none / 0)

you have on myDD

by hienmango on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: Blazing the Tra (none / 0)

Ragekage. That's no small compliment coming from you. I well remember your post about being a father, and your picture of you and your daughter. Boy, she's got a great dad.

Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain

by duende on Sun May 18, 2008 at 04:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Historic Campaign in many ways (none / 0)

Hillary has blazed a trail others are sure to follow.

As her campaign draws to a close, it is important not to lose sight of what has been accomplished. History will show that gender played only a minor role in Hillary's not becoming the Democratic Nominee in 2008.

McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.

by Lefty Coaster on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:48:13 PM EST

Re: A Historic Campaign in many ways (none / 0)

"Hillary has blazed a trail others are sure to follow.

Quick question.

Do they use the term "gloss over" where ya'll live.

I want to use the term but before I did? Just wanted to make sure it mean the same thing where ya'll live as it does where we live.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:52:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Quest for President: Blazing the Tra (none / 0)

Obama leads the popular vote too

by kellogg on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:03:30 PM EST

Damn it all -- I mean to say something (none / 0)